>>> HELLO EVERYONE, I AM BRIAN
CALLANAN HERE ON THE SEATTLE
CHANNEL.
I AM HERE RIGHT NOW ON BEHALF
OF THE MAYOR'S OFFICE TO
MODERATE A PUBLIC FORUM SO WE
CAN INTRODUCE EVERYONE TO THE
FINALISTS FOR THE JOB OF
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF
POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY.
THE DIRECTOR OF THE OPA IS
APPOINTED BY THE MAYOR AND
CONFIRMED BY THE CITY COUNCIL
AND IS APPOINTED TO SERVE A
FOUR YEAR TERM.
THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF A
DIRECTOR BEING REAPPOINTED FOR
A MAXIMUM OF 12 YEARS.
THE CITY RECEIVED MORE THAN 150
QUESTIONS FROM THE PUBLIC
REGARDING THIS POSITION.
THE SEATTLE HUMAN RESOURCES
DEPARTMENT SORTED OUT WHICH
TOPIC AREAS HAD THE MOST
INTEREST AND PULLED OUT SIX
QUESTIONS TO ASK THE
CANDIDATES.
EACH CANDIDATE, I WILL TALK
WITH ALL OF THEM, WILL APPEAR
BY THEMSELVES TO ANSWER THE
QUESTIONS AND THE ORDER IS
RANDOM IN TERMS OF HOW THEY
WILL APPEAR.
I HAVE GOT SOME INFORMATION
HERE WITH REGARD TO HOW WE WILL
CONDUCT THIS.
THE CANDIDATES WILL HAVE THREE
MINUTES TO ANSWER EACH OF THE
QUESTIONS BUT THEY DO NOT NEED
TO TAKE UP ALL THE TIME.
IF I NEED TO ASK FOR
CLARIFICATION I MIGHT DO THAT
BUT I WILL BE USING A STOPWATCH
TO MAKE SURE EACH CANDIDATE
STAYS WITHIN THE THREE MINUTE
TIMEFRAME AS CLOSE AS WE CAN
BASICALLY TO ENSURE EACH
CANDIDATE GETS AS CLOSE TO AS
POSSIBLE IN EQUAL TIME
ALLOTMENT.
LET'S GET RIGHT TO IT.
I WILL INTRODUCE YOU TO OUR
FIRST CANDIDATE WE ARE TALKING
WITH AND THAT WOULD BE GINALE
HARRIS.
SHE IS THE PROGRAM DIRECTOR OF
THE INSTITUTE IN CALIFORNIA AND
FORMER OAKLAND POLICE
COMMISSIONER FROM THE BAY AREA.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> I'M GOING TO ASK YOU THE
FIRST QUESTION, THESE ARE
QUESTIONS THAT CAME IN FROM THE
PUBLIC AND WE WILL PASS THEM
ALONG TO YOU.
WHAT IS YOUR TRACK RECORD FOR
HOLDING POLICE OFFICERS TO
ACCOUNT FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND
DECISIONS?
>> SO I'M GOING TO JUMP RIGHT
INTO IT.
WELL FIRST I WAS INSTRUMENTAL
IN THE INVESTIGATION OF THE
CASE WHICH RESULTED IN FIVE
OFFICERS BEING TERMINATED WHICH
LED TO THE DISCOVERY OF A
SOCIAL MEDIA SCANDAL WHICH WAS
INITIATED BY ONE OF THE
TERMINATED OFFICERS.
AFTER AN INVESTIGATION ON THE
SOCIAL MEDIA SCANDAL, THE
OFFICERS WAS FOUND SUSTAINED
FOR BEING RACIST.
HE QUIT THE DEPARTMENT BEFORE
THE OUTCOME OF THE
INVESTIGATION WAS DONE AND WAS
HIRED BY ANOTHER DEPARTMENT
CLOSE BY.
THE RESULT WAS A SOCIAL MEDIA
POLICY BEING REWRITTEN BY THE
POLICE COMMISSION.
THE OPEN LETTER COMPLAINT, I
WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN PROVIDING
FAX TO THE COMMISSION REGARDING
THE ALLEGATION OF MISCONDUCT
AND RACIAL THIS COMBINATION IN
HIRING PRACTICES OF AN
EXECUTIVE LEVEL COMMANDER AND
WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT.
I ADDRESSED COMPLAINTS AGAINST
MULTIPLE OPD OFFICERS IN THE
GEORGE FLOYD PROTEST, THE
RESULT WAS A NEW POLICY
WRITTEN.
I WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN THE
INITIATION OF THE REOPENING OF
EIGHT TENURE COMPLAINT
INVESTIGATION OF HIS CONDUCT BY
AN EXECUTIVE LEVEL COMMANDER.
THE COMPLAINT WAS 10 YEARS OLD
UPON MY SWEARING-IN AS A POLICE
COMMISSIONER.
THE CASE IS CURRENTLY UNDER
REVIEW BY THE OIG OFFICE.
>> THANK YOU.
DID YOU WANT TO CONTINUE ON
THAT YOU HAVE A MINUTE AND
HALF.
>> I BROUGHT FORTH 151 POLICIES
THAT HAVE BEEN OUTDATED FOR 20+
YEARS.
AS A COMMISSIONER I HELD THE
CHIEF -- AS A POLICE
COMMISSIONER WE HELD THE CHIEF
OF POLICE ACCOUNTABLE FOR NOT
INVESTIGATING ALLEGATIONS OF
RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION
WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT.
I INITIATED THE HEINZ REPORT.
YOU CAN LOOK IT UP.
I INITIATED THE REORGANIZATION
OF THE CP RB, NOW THE CP RA,
HAVE GONE THROUGH TWO EXECUTIVE
DIRECTORS TO DATE.
I CREATED A NEW JOB DESCRIPTION
FOR THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR
THE CP RA.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT.
>> I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I
MOVED ONTO HER SECOND QUESTION,
WHAT WILL YOU DO TWO SEPARATE
POLICE OVERSIGHT FROM POLICE
WHO HISTORICALLY PROTECT AND
DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST
ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT?
>> SO THAT LEVEL OF CHANGE OR
SHIFT COMES FROM POLICE
DEPARTMENT CULTURE CHANGES.
IT COMES FROM THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT LEADERSHIP ON DOWN
AND IT COMES FROM WITHIN.
I AM ONLY A PIECE TO THE PUZZLE
. BUT, IT CANNOT START WITH ME.
>> GOT IT.
JUST TO CLARIFY ON THAT, THIS
IDEA OF TRYING TO SEPARATE THE
CONCEPT OF SWORN OFFICERS BEING
INVOLVED WITH THIS, YOU ARE
TRYING TO BE THAT -- I WANT TO
TRY TO EXPLAIN WHAT YOUR ROLE
WOULD BE AND HOW YOU COULD SEE
IT, COULD YOU DELVE INTO THAT
FURTHER?
>> THE ROLE OF THE POA DIRECTOR
IS TO MAKE SURE THAT
INVESTIGATIONS GET INVESTIGATED
THOROUGHLY AND IN A TIMELY
FASHION.
AND MAKE SURE THAT JUSTICE IS
SWIFT.
ACCORDING TO THE LEGISLATION,
WE ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO GIVE
RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO, WHERE I COME FROM WHICH IS
OAKLAND, OUR POLICE COMMISSION
ACTUALLY HAS TEETH AND WE
OVERSEE THE DEPARTMENT POLICIES
PROCEDURES AND WE HAVE THE
AUTHORITY TO FIRE THE CHIEF OF
POLICE.
>> DO YOU THINK, JUST BECAUSE
WE HAVE A LITTLE MORE TIME ON
THIS QUESTION, DOES SEATTLE'S
PROGRAM NEED MORE TEETH?
YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT.
>> IN MY OWN OPINION AND MINE
ALONE I WOULD SAY YES.
THE WAY THE LEGISLATION READS
THE POLICE CHIEF CAN TAKE THE
RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE OPA
DIRECTOR OR NOT.
IGNORE IT, AND DOES NOT HAVE TO
GIVE EXPLANATION.
I FIND THAT UNACCEPTABLE.
>> THANK YOU FOR THAT
CLARIFICATION.
I'M GOING TO MOVE ON TO HER
NEXT QUESTION.
THIS WHOLE IDEA OF WHAT
PREVENTS OFFICERS FROM BEING
HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN IN YOUR
EXPERIENCE?
>> WELL, LEGISLATION CALLED LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BILL OF
RIGHTS OR POLICE BILL OF
RIGHTS.
THIS LEGISLATION CAUSES
FRUSTRATION DUE TO THE INABILITY
OF COMMUNITY AND ELECTED
OFFICIALS TO HOLD POLICE
OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE FOR
MISCONDUCT AND THE INABILITY TO
CREATE REFORM WITHIN A POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
DIFFICULTIES ARE OFTEN DUE TO
POLICE UNION POWER DERIVED FROM
THE CONTRACTS OR FROM. THERE'S
ALSO THE FEAR OF THE POLICE
OFFICERS TELLING ON ONE
ANOTHER.
ACCOUNTABILITY IT WOULD WORK IF
WE HELD EACH OTHER ACCOUNTABLE.
THERE MUST BE ORGANIZATION TO
PURSUE BALLOT INITIATIVES AND
PUBLIC EDUCATION TO WIN THOSE
INITIATIVES.
>> WHAT TYPE OF INITIATIVES ARE
YOU TALKING ABOUT?
CAN YOU DELVE INTO THAT?
>> POLICE HAVE PROTECTIONS THAT
MOST CIVILIANS DON'T.
I CAN GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
IN OAKLAND WE HAD SOMETHING
THAT THEY ARE CALLING A SEX
SCANDAL.
IT INVOLVED A 16-YEAR-OLD GIRL
THAT WAS BEING PASSED AROUND BY
MULTIPLE PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT
POLICE DEPARTMENTS IN DIFFERENT
CITIES.
AND THEY CALLED IT A SEX
SCANDAL.
NOW IN THE CIVILIAN WORLD WE
CALL THAT CHILD MOLESTATION.
HAVE THEY BEEN A CIVILIAN THEY
WOULD'VE BEEN IN JAIL AND
REGISTERED ON THE SEX REGISTRY.
BUT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THESE
PROTECTIONS THAT PROTECT THEM,
THERE WAS MINIMAL, MINIMAL
DISCIPLINE ISSUED.
>> CAN I ASK BRIEFLY ON THIS
QUESTION, WHAT HAS YOUR
INTERACTION BEEN LIFE WITH
DIFFERENT POLICE UNITS, I HAVE
ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF LEFT
AND I THOUGHT I WOULD BRING
THAT UP.
>> PERSONALLY I HAVE NOT HAD TO
HAVE THE PLEASURE OF SITTING AT
THE TABLE WITH THE POLICE
UNION.
BUT I WAS A POLICE COMMISSIONER
FOR THREE YEARS AND I WAS THE
VICE CHAIR FOR TWO OF THOSE
THREE.
AND SO, I AM VERY VOCAL ABOUT
WHERE I STAND.
THE FIRST THING I WAS ASKED
WHEN I BECAME A POLICE
COMMISSIONER IS WHAT IS THE
GOAL.
THE GOAL WAS TO DISMANTLE THE
POLICE BILL OF RIGHTS.
I THINK IF THERE IS SOMETHING
AT STAKE THAN PEOPLE WILL
BEHAVE THEMSELVES.
AND THAT IS WHAT WE WANT.
WE HAVE REALLY GOOD POLICE
OFFICERS THAT GET OVERSHADOWED
BY THE BAD ONES.
AND IT'S NOT FAIR.
>> THANK YOU FOR BREAKING THAT
DOWN.
I'M GOING TO MOVE ONTO THE NEXT
QUESTION.
THIS IS A CHUNKIER ONE, IF YOU
WILL.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO REACH OUT
DIRECTLY TO THE COMMUNITY,
ESPECIALLY THE BIPOC COMMUNITY,
AND BUILD TRUST AND COMMUNICATE
HOW YOU ARE KEEPING LAW
ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS
ACCOUNTABLE.
WHAT DOES ACCOUNTABILITY AND
TRANSPARENCY LOOK LIKE?
>> I START WITH THE MOST
IMPACTED COMMUNITY.
WHICH IS WHERE I LIVE.
I BUILD RELATIONSHIPS WITH MANY
PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.
I MADE IT A POINT TO ALWAYS
MAKE MYSELF AVAILABLE TO THE
COMMUNITY AND NOT JUST THROUGH
EMAIL.
I VOLUNTEERED TO BE A LIAISON
FOR TWO SEPARATE FAMILIES FOR
INVESTIGATION PURPOSES.
ONE, FOR THE DISAPPEARANCE OF A
YOUNG BLACK BOY WHO IS STILL
MISSING.
OUT OF THAT CAME A NEW MISSING
PERSON POLICY, WHICH I
PARTICIPATED IN AS WELL.
FOR ANOTHER CASE THAT HAD NOT
PROPERLY BEEN INVESTIGATED,
WHERE DISCRIMINATION FROM
EXECUTIVE LEVEL OFFICIALS HAD
BEEN ALLEGED, IT WAS ONGOING
FOR 10 YEARS AND NO ONE SEEMED
T CARE ABOUT IT.
SO I BECAME THE LIAISON FOR
THAT COMMUNITY MEMBER.
THEY WOULD CONSTANTLY COME TO
POLICE COMMISSIONS AND YOU HAVE
TWO MINUTES TO SPEAK AND THEN
YOU GO AWAY.
RIGHT?
I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT
IT.
I ALWAYS DO IT I SAY.
AND I SAY WHAT I MEAN WITH
COMMUNITY.
INTEGRITY IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR
ME AND I MUST DISPLAY WHAT I
WANT TO SEE.
MY MOTTO IS, TRUTH OVER PIECE.
YOU WILL HEAR THAT FROM ME ALL
THE TIME.
BIPOC MUST BE ALLOWED TO BE
THEIR OWN EXPERTS.
AND TODAY THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
I AM VERY TRANSPARENT WITH
COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT IS
NECESSARY NO MATTER WHAT THE
OUTCOME.
>> WHAT DOES THAT TRANSPARENTLY
LOOK LIKE?
WHEN YOU WOULD SEE THAT IN YOUR
JOB, CAN YOU DESCRIBE AN
EXAMPLE?
>> FOR ME IT LOOKS LIKE TELLING
TH TRUTH AND DEALING WITH THE
CONSEQUENCES.
THERE ARE LAWS AND POLICY PUT
IN PLACE FOR A REASON.
POLICIES KEEP -- HELP KEEP
EVERYONE INVOLVED SAFE.
THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF
POLICIES.
HOWEVER, IN MY EXPERIENCE, THEY
WERE NOT LOOKED AT AS IMPORTANT
BECAUSE SO MANY WERE NOT
UPDATED IN 20+ YEARS.
OAKLAND HAS HAD 14 CHIEFS SINCE
1993.
TRANSPARENCY IS BEING HONEST
AND OWNING YOUR MISTAKES AND
MOVING FORWARD.
>> GREAT.
THANK YOU FOR BREAKING DOWN ALL
THOSE PIECES WITH ME.
I'M GOING TO MOVE ON TO THE
NEXT QUESTION.
WHAT YOU PERCEIVE THE ROLE OF
THE OPA TO BE AND BROADER
DISCUSSIONS AROUND PUBLIC
SAFETY?
ALSO, WHAT ALTERNATIVE RESPONSE
MODELS AND SERVICES INTEREST
YOU AND WILL YOU ACTIVELY
ADVOCATE FOR THESE BEING
DEVELOPED IN SEATTLE IF YOU
BECOME THE DIRECTOR?
>> IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE
ROLE, ONE MUST UNDERSTAND OR
HEAR THE WRONGS THAT HAVE BEEN
DONE TO COMMUNITIES AROUND THE
NATION.
PUBLIC SAFETY DOES NOT LOOK THE
SAME FOR ALL PEOPLE.
ESPECIALLY BIPOC.
IN A PERFECT WORLD IT WOULD.
WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT
POLICING WAS DERIVED FROM
SLAVERY.
WE CANNOT DENY THAT.
HOWEVER, THERE ARE MANY GOOD
OFFICERS THAT WANT TO SEE THE
COMMUNITY AT PEACE AND SAFE.
I THINK WE NEED TO DECIDE WHAT
ROLE OUR OFFICERS PLAY IN THE
COMMUNITY SO THEY CAN FOCUS ON
BEING THE BEST OF THE BEST.
I SEE THE COBAR ROLE AS BEING
A GATEKEEPER.
MAKING SURE THAT LOOKING INTO
MISCONDUCT IS DONE FAIR,
PROPER, AND IN A TIMELY MANNER
ALWAYS.
>> TALK TO ME ABOUT SOME OF
THOSE ALTERNATIVE MODELS OF
PUBLIC SAFETY.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT A LOT
IN SEATTLE RIGHT NOW.
SOMETHING THAT SORT OFFICERS
WOULD BE INVOLVED, WOULD YOU
ADVOCATE FOR THAT AS OPA
DIRECTOR?
>> I AM ALL FOR PARTNERSHIPS
HOWEVER IT TAKES TWO PARTIES TO
PARTICIPATE.
I BELIEVE IN OAKLAND'S MODEL
BECAUSE THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES
FOR THOSE WHO DISPUTE
ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT IT STARTS
WITH LEGISLATION.
AS I SAID PREVIOUSLY.
WITHOUT MY EFFORTS, WITHOUT
THAT, MY EFFORTS WOULD BE FOR
NOTHING.
THIS POSITION COMES WITH VERY
HIGH COSTS IF YOU ARE TRULY
ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY AND
COMMUNITY.
IT SEEMS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO
COMPLETE THE TASK WITHOUT
RESISTANCE FROM THOSE WE HOLD
ACCOUNTABLE.
>> GOT IT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH
FOR THAT.
I WANTED TO ASK THE FINAL
QESTION, WHAT WOULD BE A KEY
INDICATOR OF SUCCESS FOR YOU AS
THE OPA DIRECTOR IF YOU ARE
SELECTED?
>> SO I WOULD SAY ESTABLISHING
AND BUILDING A TRUE
COLLABORATION BETWEEN LAW
ENFORCEMENT AND COMMUNITY.
BEING ON THE SAME PAGE AS FAR
AS ACCOUNTABILITY GOES.
I USE THE CASE AS AN EXAMPLE.
WORDSMITHING IS COMMON.
RIGHT?
AND ACCOUNTABILITY.
AND I DON'T THINK IT IS RIGHT.
WE CALL IT FOR WHAT IT IS.
IT IS NOT A RAPE SCANDAL, IT'S
A CHILD MILLER STATION CASE.
WE HAVE SOME OFFICERS, SOME
GOOD OFFICERS THAT GET
OVERSHADOWED BY THINGS LIKE
THIS.
WE NEED TO OWN THE WRONGS THAT
HAVE BEEN DONE.
AND THAT IS A GOOD START.
>> WE HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES
LEFT.
DO YOU SEE SIMILARITIES FROM
THE AREA WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND
SEATTLE WITH REGARD TO THE
POLICE PUBLIC SAFETY SITUATION?
I KNOW IT'S A BIGGER AREA DOWN
THERE BUT ARE THERE
SIMILARITIES AND MAYBE
LEARNINGS YOU CAN BRING FROM
THE JOB THAT WE COULD USE HERE
IN SEATTLE?
>> I DO.
I SEE A LOT OF SIMILARITIES.
I ALSO KNOW THAT OAKLAND IS
PAST WHERE SEATTLE IS NOW.
WE HAVE A LOT OF BUMPS IN THE
ROAD.
IT WAS VERY CHALLENGING.
AND YOU KNOW, THE POLICE
COMMISSIONERS IN OAKLAND ARE
VOLUNTEER.
SO THEY DON'T GET PAID FOR
THEIR EFFORTS.
AND IT IS A FULL-TIME JOB.
RIGHT?
YOU HAVE TO GO TO YOUR JOB THAT
PAYS YOU AND THEN YOU GO TO THE
ONE THAT DOESN'T.
WHICH ONE IS MOST MEANINGFUL,
RIGHT?
BUT WE DO AND HAVE DONE A LOT
OF GOOD WORK. I THINK, YOU
KNOW, WE LEAD BY EXAMPLE.
HAVE WE MADE SOME MISTAKES?
SURE.
WE WERE THE FIRST.
AND I THINK WE HAVE
ACCOMPLISHED A LOT.
I WAS THE CHAIR OF THE USE OF
FORCE AD HOC WHICH IS, YOU
KNOW, HAS PRODUCED THE MOST
PROGRESSIVE POLICY IN THE
NATION.
IS IT GREAT?
NO.
IS A ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT?
ABSOLUTELY.
BUT, I THINK IT WILL DO WITH
THE PARAMETERS WE HAVE.
>> GREAT.
YOU HAVE ABOUT 45 SECONDS, IS
THERE A CLOSING STATEMENT YOU
WANTED TO THROW IN THERE?
>> WELL, I JUST WANTED TO THANK
THE CITY OF SEATTLE FOR HAVING
ME AND RECOGNIZING THE WORK
THAT I DO.
AGAIN, IT IS TRUTH OVER PEACE.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, VERY MUCH.
THAT IS GINALE HARRIS, ONE OF
THE CANDIDATES FOR THE OPA JOB.
WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A QUICK
BREAK TO BRING IN OUR NEXT
CANDIDATE.
STAY WITH US.
WE WILL BE BACK IN ABOUT FIVE
MINUTES OR SO.
>>> I AM BACK WITH YOU HERE ON
SEATTLE CHANNEL.
I LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOU TO THE
FINALISTS OF THE JOB OF
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF
POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR
SEATTLE.
NEXT UP IT'S EDDIE AUBREY.
THE CIVILIAN MANAGER FOR THE
OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL
ACCOUNTABILITY ENRICHMENT.
GOOD TO MEET YOU.
THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME.
>> NICE MEETING YOU.
>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET
THROUGH THE QUESTIONS, I WILL
USE THIS TIMER, BUT I HOPE WE
CAN HAVE A GOOD DISCUSSION.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS FIRST
ONE.
WHAT IS YOUR TRACK RECORD FOR
HOLDING POLICE OFFICERS TO
ACCOUNT FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND
DECISIONS?
>> WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS I
HAVE DONE AT THE OFFICE OF
INDEPENDENT REVIEW IN FRESNO
WHERE I WAS THE INDEPENDENT
REVIEWER WAS THAT I COMPLETED
AN AUDIT REPORT CONTAINED
SEVERAL OFFICER INVOLVED
SHOOTINGS AND FINDINGS ON
THOSE.
AND THAT REPORT WAS ACTUALLY
USED IN THE WRONGFUL DEATH
FEDERAL LAWSUIT OF A LATINO MAN
THAT WAS SHOT BY A FRESNO
POLICE OFFICER.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT REPORT IT
HELPED INFLUENCE THE JUDGMENT
OR SETTLEMENT OF THAT
PARTICULAR CASE.
THE SECOND PORTION OF IT IS
MIGHT WORK AS OPA IN RICHMOND.
IN THAT I HAVE COMPLETED ABOUT
SIX YEARS OF WORK THERE.
WHAT WE DO IS WE LOOK AT
SUSTAINED FINDINGS.
I KNOW AT OPA HERE IN SEATTLE
SUSTAINED FINDINGS RANGE FROM
18% TO 26% FOR THE LAST TWO
YEARS.
BEFORE I GOT TO RICHMOND IT WAS
ABOUT 30%.
IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS AVERAGE,
OUR SUSTAINED RATE IS ABOUT 50%.
OF OUR INVESTIGATIONS.
>> WOW, THAT IS A NUMBER THAT
NEEDS TO INCREASE HERE IN
SEATTLE.
IS THAT WHERE WE ARE GOING WITH
THIS?
>> IT IS ALWAYS DEPENDENT UPON
THE CASES.
THE INVESTIGATIONS.
AND HOW THOROUGH THEY ARE
COMPLETED.
THAT IS ONE OF MY STRONG SUITS
IS TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE
THOROUGH, FAIR AND NEUTRAL AND
UNBIASED.
AND COMPLETE THE ENTIRE
INVESTIGATION, NOT JUST
PORTIONS.
>> JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE A
COUPLE MINUTES LEFT, A MINUTE
AND A HALF, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO
THE PUBLIC WHAT THAT SUSTAINED
RATE MEANS?
WHEN YOU ARE SAYING THAT, WHAT
DOES IT MEAN TO THE AVERAGE
PERSON?
>> FOR OUR FINDINGS, WE
NORMALLY HAVE DIFFERENT
CLASSIFICATIONS, SUSTAINED
MEANS THE MISCONDUCT ACTUALLY
OCCURRED.
NOT SUSTAINED MEANS THEY
COULDN'T PROVE ONE WAY OR
ANOTHER THAT THE MISCONDUCT
OCCURRED.
AND THERE ARE COUPLE OF THEIR
DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.
WHEN WE GET AN INVESTIGATION,
WE START AN INVESTIGATION AND
WE LOOK AT A PREPONDERANCE OF
EVIDENCE WHETHER OR NOT THE
ACTUAL MISCONDUCT OCCURRED.
SO THAT IS WHEN WE LOOK AT THE
ENTIRE CASE, WE LOOK AT THE
ALLEGATIONS, WE COMPLETE THE
INTERVIEWS AND WE LOOK AT ALL
THE EVIDENCE.
WE LOOK AT VARIOUS PIECES OF
EVIDENCE GATHERED FROM
EVERYWHERE AND THAT IS, WHEN WE
PUT IT ALL TOGETHER, WE MAKE A
DECISION ON THAT.
AND THEN I CERTIFY THAT
DECISION.
>> 30 SECONDS LEFT, I WANTED TO
KNOW, DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA WHY
SEATTLE'S SUSTAINED RATE IS LOW
AND WHAT COULD BE DONE TO
IMPROVE IT?
>> I HAVE ACTUALLY LOOKED AT
THE FINDINGS CATEGORIES AND ONE
OF THE THINGS I SEE THERE IS
THAT THEY HAVE DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES.
I THINK THEY ACTUALLY ARE
ACTUALLY FINDING THAT THERE HAS
BEEN VIOLATIONS OF POLICIES
THERE.
AND I THINK THAT MIGHT
INFLUENCE THAT AND IT WOULD
GIVE THE CITIZENS A BETTER
OUTLOOK ON WHAT OPA IS ACTUALLY
DOING.
AND IT WILL REFLECT MORE OF
THEIR WORK AND I THINK THAT
WILL HELP THE CITIZEN SEE WHAT
IS HAPPENING OUT THERE.
>> PERFECT.
TIME IS UP ON THAT ONE.
THANK YOU FOR BREAKING THOSE
DOWN.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE NEXT
QUESTION, WHAT WILL YOU DO TWO
SEPARATE PLEASE OVERSIGHT FROM
THE POLICE, WHO HISTORICALLY
PROTECT AND DEFEND THEMSELVES
AGAINST ACCOUNTABILITY AND
OVERSIGHT?
>> THAT IS A REALLY GOOD
QUESTION.
IT IS A BIG QUESTION.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE
NEED TO DO IS EXAMINE DIFFERENT
MODELS OF OVERSIGHT IN THE U.S.
ONE OF THOSE MODELS IS IN
CHICAGO THROUGH THE COPA OFFICE
WHERE THEY HAVE A LOT OF
CIVILIAN INVESTIGATORS, MOST OF
THEM ARE.
THEY HAVE SOME LAW ENFORCEMENT
EXPERIENCE.
BUT, THE OTHER THING WE ARE
DOING IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON
IS THEY STARTED THE OFFICE OF
INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATIONS
WHICH STARTS JULY 1. MY
DISCUSSIONS WITH THE GOVERNOR'S
OFFICE IN REGARDS TO THAT
PROGRAM IS THAT THEY ARE GOING
TO INSTILL TWO DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE SWORN
OFFICERS AS INVESTIGATORS.
NOW THEY WILL HAVE RETIRED
OFFICERS AS SENIOR
INVESTIGATORS.
AND THEN THEY WILL HIRE
INVESTIGATORS THAT ARE
COMPLETELY CIVILIANS.
THE SENIOR OFFICERS WILL TRAIN
AND SHOW THE ROPES TO THE
YOUNGER OFFICERS AND DURING A
TRANSITION PERIOD OF MAYBE 4 TO
5 YEARS, THAN THOSE SENIOR
OFFICERS WILL PHASE OUT.
BUT THE CIVILIAN INVESTIGATORS
WILL THEN HAVE ENOUGH WORK AND
EXPERIENCE TO TAKE OVER THOSE
POSITIONS WHICH WOULD MAKE IT
TOTALLY CIVILIAN ICED.
I WOULD ADVOCATE SOMETHING
SIMILAR OR TRANSITION LIKE THAT
HERE.
BUT THERE ARE THREE BENEFITS TO
THE WHOLE THING.
RIGHT NOW THERE IS A TWO YEAR
ROTATION OF SERGEANTS THAT COME
IN AND OUT WHICH MEANS YOU HAVE
TO TRAIN THOSE SERGEANTS.
THE SECOND BENEFIT IS THE
CIVILIAN EMPLOYEES WILL STAY
LONGER THAN TWO YEARS.
AND THE LAST BENEFIT IS THE
POLICE SERGEANTS THAT ARE
CURRENTLY THERE CAN BE
REASSIGNED TO PATROL DUTIES
WORKING THE STREETS AND DOING
THOSE JOBS WHERE WE HAVE A
DIFFICULT TIME, OR THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT HAS A DIFFICULT TIME
IN RETENTION OF OFFICERS RIGHT
NOW.
>> WE HAVE A MINUTE LEFT.
YOU MENTIONED THE PIECE ABOUT
THE STATE.
HOW WOULD THE CITY AND STATE
WORK TOGETHER ON THESE CASES?
>> THAT IS SOMETHING THEY'RE
STILL TRYING TO WORK OUT.
SINCE THE PROGRAM IS VERY NEW
WITH THE OFFICE OF INDEPENDENT
INVESTIGATION.
THEY'RE TRYING TO WORK THAT
OUT.
THAT WILL BE WORKED OUT WITH
THE SEATTLE FIT TEAM, FORCE
INVESTIGATION TEAM, AND
CRIMINAL DIVISION TO REALLY PUT
THAT TOGETHER, BECAUSE RIGHT
NOW THEY HAVE A BUNCH -- THEY
HAVE SEVERAL DIFFERENT
INVESTIGATIVE UNITS THREAT THE
STATE.
THOSE UNITS WILL ASSIST THE
OII.
IT IS A PROCESS THAT HAS TO BE
PUT TOGETHER AND I AM HOPEFUL
THAT OPA AND THE
ACCOUNTABILITY MODEL IN SEATTLE
INCLUDING THE OFFICE OF
INSPECTOR GENERAL AND POLICE
COMMISSION WILL BE PART OF THAT
DISCUSSION TO SEE HOW THAT
WORKS.
BECAUSE THEY ARE FOCUSED
SPECIFICALLY ON CRIMINAL
PROSECUTION INVESTIGATIONS.
>> THANK YOU FOR BREAKING ALL
THOSE PIECES DOWN.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE THIRD
QUESTION WITH YOU THAT WE HAVE
GOTTEN FROM THE PUBLIC.
THESE WERE WHITTLED DOWN FROM
150 QUESTIONS.
THIS GOES LIKE THIS, WHAT
PREVENTS OFFICERS FROM BEING
HELD ACCOUNTABLE?
WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN IN YOUR
EXPERIENCE?
>> IN MY EXPERIENCE THROUGHOUT
MY VARIED CAREER, AND I DON'T
WANT TO PRESUPPOSE THAT ALL
OFFICERS ARE NOT BEING HELD
ACCOUNTABLE, BUT WHAT I DO WANT
TO SAY IS THAT WHAT I HAVE SEEN
IS THAT IT IS THE POLICE
CULTURE.
AND IN THAT POLICE CULTURE
THEIR VALUES AND THE POLICE
CULTURE WHICH WILL HELP
ALLEVIATE THE CULTURE, I MEAN
THE CULTURAL ISSUE.
THEIR VALUES THERE.
AND ONE OF THEM IS A DUTY.
OFFICERS REALLY RESPECT THE
VALUE OF DUTY.
ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE BEEN
INVESTIGATING AND WORKING IN
RICHMOND ABOUT IS THE DUTY TO
INTERCEDE WHEN THERE IS A USE
OF FORCE CASE GOING ON AND THE
OFFICERS SHOULD GO AHEAD AND
INTERCEDE AND STOP THAT.
OR, A DUTY TO REPORT SOME OF
THOSE USE OF FORCE CASES OR
OTHER MISCONDUCT THAT THEY SEE.
THOSE THINGS, WE ARE TAKING A
DEEPER DIVE IN OPA IN RICHMOND
AND LOOKING AT THOSE KINDS OF
THINGS BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE
YOU'RE GOING TO START SEEING
THE CULTURE SHIFT.
WHEN OFFICERS VALUE AND THEY
CAN GO AHEAD AND SPEAK AND TALK
AND REPORT THOSE THINGS AND
STOP THOSE THINGS.
THAT VALUE AND DUTY TO STOP AND
INTERCEDE, IT TRANSFORMS INTO
EVERYTHING ELSE.
THE DUTY TO PROTECT CITIZENS,
THEIR DUTY TO STOP OTHER THINGS
THEY SEE ON THE STREET.
THEIR DUTY AND VALUES TO SAY,
HEY, I'M GOING TO DO THE BEST
JOB I CAN.
NOT THAT THEY ARE DOING THAT
NOW, BUT THAT DUTY IS A STRONG
VALUE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.
THAT WILL GO AHEAD AND REALLY
TURN THE TIDE AND MAKE MASSIVE
CHANGE IN THE CULTURE.
>> THANK YOU.
WE HAVE A MINUTE AND HALF LEFT
ON THIS QUESTION.
WHAT HAS BEEN THE REACTION OF
RANK-AND-FILE OFFICERS TO THAT
ETHIC OR DIRECTIVE YOU'RE
TRYING TO TAKE IN RICHMOND?
>> YOU KNOW, WHAT I HAVE SEEN
AND, OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE THERE IS
CONFIDENTIALITY
>> OF COURSE.
>> LAWS AND RULES, BUT WHAT
I'VE SEEN IS FIRST THERE IS A
DISCUSSION ON WHO DOES THE DUTY
BELONG TO?
DOES THE DUTY BELONG TO THE
OFFICER? OR DOES THE DUTY
BELONG TO THE SUPERVISOR?
SUPERVISING THE OFFICER?
OR DOES IT BELONG TO BOTH AND
HOW STRONG SHOULD THAT DUTY BE,
HOW IN DEPTH SHOULD THAT REVIEW
BE? FOR INSTANCE, IN A REVIEW
OF USE OF FORCE, THE OFFICER
SAYS X HAPPENED WITH THE USE OF
FORCE.
THE SUPERVISOR COMES AND ASKS,
WHAT HAPPENED?
WELL, X HAPPENED IN THE USE OF
FORCE.
HOW DEEP DOES THAT
INVESTIGATION GO INTO?
BUT WHEN THERE IS A DUTY TO
REPORT AND INTERCEDE, AND THE
WHOLE PHILOSOPHY OF DUTY, THEN
THE OFFICER IS MUCH MORE WILLING
, NOT WILLING, BUT IS MORE
FORTHCOMING AND SAYS,
EVERYTHING THAT IS GOING ON AND
THE SURGEON SAYS I HAVE A DUTY
TO MAKE SURE I LOOKED UNDER
EVERY ROCK, GET EVERY ANSWER,
LOOK AT EVERYTHING TO MAKE SURE
WHAT HAPPENED OUT HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
I WANTED TO ASK THIS NEXT
QUESTION, THIS ONE IS A BIG
ONE.
THERE'S A LOT TO IT.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO REACH OUT
DIRECTLY TO THE COMMUNITY,
ESPECIALLY THE BIPOC COMMUNITY,
TO BUILD TRUST AND COMMUNICATE
HOW YOUR KEEPING LAW
ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS TRANSPARENT
AND ACCOUNTABLE?
WHAT DOES ACCOUNTABILITY AND
TRANSPARENCY LOOK LIKE TO YOU?
>> THAT IS A REALLY BIG
QUESTION.
I THINK MY EXPERIENCE AT THE
OFFICE OF INDEPENDENT REVIEW AT
FRESNO WILL GIVE A GOOD EXAMPLE.
I STARTED THAT PARTICULAR
OFFICE AND I HAD A STAFF OF 1
1/2.
IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LARGER
BUT OF COURSE BUDGETS AFFECTED
THAT.
I HAD A STAFF OF ONE AND WE
WERE TITLED, MAY BE CALLED A
TOOTHLESS MODEL WHERE WE CAN
ONLY MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS.
TO MY JOB WHEN I GOT THERE WAS
TO SAY, HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS
WORK?
HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS EFFECTIVE?
HOW CAN THE IMPACT LEASE
SERVICES AND BUILD TRUST WITH
THE COMMUNITY?
SO, WHAT I DID WAS, IT WAS A
MASSIVE UNDERTAKING BY MYSELF,
WHERE IT WAS COMPLETE COMMUNITY
OUTREACH, I WORKED WITH CITY
COUNCIL, STAKEHOLDERS, THE
BIPOC COMMUNITY, FAITH LEADERS,
AND WE WORKED HARD AND I MET
WITH THEM, WE TALKED ABOUT
ISSUES.
WE HAD QUESTION AND ANSWERS.
I ASKED THEM WHAT THEY WANTED.
I WORKED WITH THE CC JC IN
CENTRAL CALIFORNIA AND USE THEM
AS AN AD HOC LEASE COMMISSION,
EVEN THOUGH THERE WASN'T ONE
THERE.
IT TOOK A YEAR OF WORK AND
REPORTS AND ONE OF THE THINGS
WE DID WAS WE HAD A SURVEY AT
THE END OF THAT AND AFTER THAT
SURVEY TWO THIRDS OF THE
CITIZENS IN THE COMMUNITY SAID
THAT WHAT WE WERE DOING IN THE
OFFICE OF INDEPENDENT REVIEW
BENEFITED THE POLICE SERVICES.
BUT, WHAT WAS MORE ASTOUNDING
WAS THAT 80% OF THE PUBLIC AND
COMMUNITY SAID THEY HAD MORE
CONFIDENCE IN THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT BASED UPON THE WORK
I DID IN THE OFFICE OF
INDEPENDENT REVIEW.
THAT WENT FROM 60% TO 80%.
THE SURVEY COMPANY THAT DID
THAT SAID THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN
THAT HAPPEN. THAT WAS
ASTOUNDING THAT THAT COULD
OCCUR IN ONE YEAR.
THEY ASKED ME, WHAT DID YOU DO?
AND I SAID IT'S A LOT OF HARD
WORK, DAY AND NIGHT AND ON THE
EVENINGS WORKING WITH THE
COMMUNITY AND ANSWERING THE
QUESTIONS.
BEING RESPONSIVE.
PUTTING INFORMATION ON THE
WEBSITE SO THEY COULD SEE THAT.
SO THAT IS WHAT I DID THERE.
I AM VERY PROUD OF THAT WORK
AND WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY
ON THAT.
>> A LOT OF WORK THERE.
THANK YOU FOR THAT.
MOVING ON TO HER NEXT PIECE.
WHAT YOU PERCEIVE THE ROLE OF
THE OPA TO BE IN BROADER
DISCUSSIONS AROUND PUBLIC
SAFETY?
ALSO, WHAT ALTERNATIVE RESPONSE
MODELS AND SERVICES INTEREST
YOU AND WILL YOU ACTIVELY
ADVOCATE FOR THESE BEING
DEVELOPED IN SEATTLE IF YOU
BECOME THE DIRECTOR?
>> I AM ON THE PAGE OF THE
MAYOR HERE ABOUT ONE SEATTLE.
WHEN I HEARD THAT I SAID, WOW,
THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT ON.
SO I AM LOOKING AT ONE SEATTLE
ACCOUNTABILITY AND THAT WOULD
BE, FOR THIS QUESTION, HAVING
OPA INPUT AND COLLABORATION
WITH THE OFFICE OF OF INSPECTOR
GENERAL AND THE POLICE
COMMISSION.
TO HAVE UNIFIED RESPONSE FROM
ALL THREE ORGANIZATIONS TO GO
AHEAD AND ADDRESS THESE LARGER
PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES.
ONE OF THOSE, I KNOW, THEIR
INVOLVEMENT AND THEY ARE
LOOKING AT IS THE MENTAL HEALTH
RESPONSE.
AND THE HAS TO BE THOUGHTFUL
MENTAL HEALTH RESPONSE BECAUSE
THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT
MODELS OUT THERE.
AND FOLKS SOMETIMES GO INTO IT
VERY QUICKLY AND THEN FIND OUT
THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO WORK
AND THEN THEY LOSE FUNDING.
WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.
I THINK IF WE WORK TOGETHER WE
CAN DO THAT.
SO IT'S A BETTER UTILIZATION
FOR THE ALTERNATIVE RESPONSE.
ON THE FLIPSIDE OF THAT, IS THE
MENTAL HEALTH WELLNESS OF
POLICE DEPARTMENT PERSONNEL.
THAT IS ALSO IMPORTANT BECAUSE
WE WANT TO HAVE HEALTHY
OFFICERS WITH A CLEAR MINDSET
TO RESPOND TO CALLS, THE SECOND
THING IS RETENTION OF POLICE
OFFICERS.
THAT IS A BIG DEAL RIGHT NOW.
AND WITH MORE UNTIL HEALTH
WELLNESS FOR POLICE PERSONNEL
THAT WILL HELP. THE LAST THING
IS, THE SUICIDE RATE.
OFFICERS END UP COMMITTING
SUICIDE MORE DATA AND ARE KILLED
-- MORE THAN ANY OTHER KINDS OF
CRIMES OUT THERE.
IF THEY EVEN DEAL WITH A DEADLY
SUSPECT THAT IS ARMED OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, MORE
OFFICERS ARE KILLED WITH THEIR
OWN WEAPONS VERSUS SOMEONE
ELSE'S WEAPON.
AND ALL THAT MENTAL HEALTH, FOR
NOT ONLY THE COMMUNITY BEFORE
THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND
POLICE PERSONNEL WILL HELP OLD
TRUST AND MAKE THE COMMUNITY
SAFER.
>> THANK YOU.
I WANTED TO DELVE INTO THE
ALTERNATIVE RESPONSE PIECE.
THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION IN
THE COMMUNITY ABOUT USING NON-
SWORN OFFICERS, MAYBE THAT IS
PART OF THE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE
YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ABOUT SOME
OF THE IDEAS THAT COULD BE USED
FOR THOSE DIFFERENT TYPES OF
RESPONSES AND WHAT YOU WOULD
ADVOCATE FOR?
>> RESPONSE WILL START FROM
DISPATCH, WHERE THEY ACTUALLY
CAN TRIAGE AND FIGURE OUT WHAT
IS GOING ON.
AND ASKING VERY POWERFUL AND
CURIOUS QUESTIONS SO THEY CAN
UNDERSTAND, IS THIS A VIOLENT
EVENT THAT IS GOING ON?
A NONVIOLENT ACT?
ARE THE RELATIVES AVAILABLE?
OTHER OTHER PEOPLE THERE TO
HELP?
THAT WAY THEY CAN TRIAGE THAT
AND HAVE THE NONVIOLENT
RESPONSE TEAM GO THERE.
AND AGAIN, IT DEPENDS ON THE
MODEL SEATTLE USES, WHERE THERE
ARE A CLINICIAN AND CITIZEN OR
COMMUNITY MEMBER, OR IS IT A
CLINICIAN AND OFFICER?
IT ALL HAS TO WORK OUT.
THE BIGGEST THING IS, WE NEED
TO WORK WITH THE WHOLE
COMMUNITY, ACCOUNTABILITY WITH
THE INSPECTOR GENERAL, POLICE
COMMISSION AND OPA TO ACTUALLY
WORK ON THAT.
>> OUR LAST QUESTION, WHAT
WOULD BE A KEY INDICATOR OF
SUCCESS FOR YOU AS OPA DIRECTOR
IF YOU ARE SELECTED FOR THE
JOB?
>> WELL, I GUESS I GIVE A HINT
OF THAT EARLIER.
MY WORK IN FRESNO. I THINK, IF
WE HAD RESULTS OF PUBLIC
CONFIDENCE THAT WERE SIMILAR OR
BETTER THAN WE HAD IN FRESNO,
THAT WOULD BE ONE KEY INDICATOR
ABOUT SUCCESS.
NOT THE WHOLE SUCCESS, BUT WHEN
THE COMMUNITY IS HAPPY AND THEY
ARE SATISFIED, THE POLICE
SERVICES ARE WHERE THEY WANT
THEM TO BE, THEN THAT IS REALLY
A KEY INDICATOR. ONE OF THOSE
THINGS YOU WOULD DO IS AN
EXTERNAL AUDIT, I WOULD RELY,
NUMBER ONE ON THE INSPECTOR
GENERAL'S OFFICE TO DO THOSE
AUDITS AND HAVE AUTHENTIC AND
MEANINGFUL CONVERSATIONS,
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY DO
WITH OPA.
THE OTHER THING, I TALKED
ABOUT, SERVICE IN THE
COMMUNITY.
I THINK THAT IS HIGHLY
IMPORTANT TO GET COMMUNITY
FEEDBACK SO THE OFFICE OF OPA
AND GO AHEAD AND NAVIGATE WHERE
THEY SHOULD GO AND WHERE THEIR
EFFORTS SHOULD GO.
THE LAST THING IS, INTERNALLY.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE
CAN DO INTERNALLY FOR OPA STAFF
'S PERFORMANCE COACHING.
COACHING IS SO IMPORTANT.
IT ALLOWS THOSE INDIVIDUALS TO
HELP THEM BE BETTER, BUT THEY
ARE THE ONES FIGURING IT OUT,
BUT THEY ARE HAVING SOMEONE
ELSE COACH THEM TO GET TO THAT
LEVEL SO THEY CAN HAVE A
FULFILLED CAREER WORKING AT
OPA.
AND THE LAST THING ABOUT THIS
WHOLE THING IS, I AM REALLY BIG
ON ACHIEVING THE UNIFIED GOALS
AS ONE SEATTLE ACCOUNTABILITY.
I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THE
INSPECTOR GENERAL, THE POLICE
COMMISSION AND OPA HAVE UNIFIED
GROUP GOALS EVERY YEAR THAT WE
CAN ACHIEVE TOGETHER.
THAT WILL HELP THE COMMUNITY
AND THEY WILL TRUST
ACCOUNTABILITY AND THEY WILL
TRUST THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
SO WITH THAT WHOLE UNIFIED
EXPERIENCE AND UNIFIED APPROACH,
I THINK THERE CAN BE GREATER
SUCCESS FOR SEATTLE IN THERE
ALREADY IS.
>> LIKE YOU VERY MUCH.
I HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.
ANYTHING YOU WANT TO WRAP UP,
FINAL THOUGHTS ABOUT WHAT YOU
THINK YOU ARE THE RIGHT PERSON
FOR THIS JOB?
>> THANK YOU.
ACTUALLY I HAVE A 360 DEGREE
VIEW OF LAW AND JUSTICE AND
CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT.
I AM A SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT IN
OVERSIGHT.
A CERTIFIED PETITIONER IN
OVERSIGHT THROUGH NACOLE,
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
CIVILIANS OVER LAW ENFORCEMENT
OVERSIGHT.
AND I HAVE DONE THIS FOR THE
LAW JUSTICE AND THIS WHOLE
EVOLUTION I HAVE HAD IN MY
CAREER FOR 40 YEARS IN
CALIFORNIA AND IN WASHINGTON.
TH OTHER THING IS THAT WHEN I
LEFT THE SANTA MONICA POLICE
DEPARTMENT, THE SMALLER POLICE
DEPARTMENT AND WENT TO THE LOS
ANGELES LARGER POLICE
DEPARTMENT, I DID THAT BECAUSE
I WANTED TO IMPACT THE
COMMUNITY I GREW UP IN IN SOUTH-
CENTRAL LOS ANGELES.
RICHMOND, SMALLER AGENCY OPA,
COMING TO SEATTLE, MY WIFE AND
FAMILY ARE HERE.
THAT IS WHY I WANT TO BE HERE
AND DO THIS JOB.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
EDDIE AUBREY.
CIVILIAN MANAGER OF THE OFFICE
OF ACCOUNTABILITY IN RETURN.
RIGHT NOW WE WILL TAKE A MOMENT
TO BRING IN OUR NEXT CANDIDATE.
PLEASE STAY WITH US WE WILL BE
BACK IN A FEW MOMENTS.
>> ♪
>>> I'M HERE WITH YOU AS WE
CONTINUE TO TALK WITH THE
DIFFERENT CANDIDATES FOR THE
POSITION OF DIRECTOR OF THE
OFFICE OF POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY.
OUR NEXT CANDIDATE IS VALIZA
NASH WHO IS A SUPERVISING
INVESTIGATOR FOR SPECIAL
VICTIMS FROM THE CIVILIAN
OFFICE OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY
IN CHICAGO ILLINOIS.
GOOD TO MEET YOU.
I WANTED TO GET TO THESE
QUESTIONS WITH YOU, LET'S
TACKLE THE FIRST ONE.
WHAT IS YOUR TRACK RECORD FOR
HOLDING POLICE OFFICERS TO
ACCOUNT FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND
DECISIONS?
>> OKAY, UNDER MY LEADERSHIP
OFFICERS UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY
WOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR
THEIR ACTIONS IF THEY WORKED
OUTSIDE THE POLICIES AND
PROCEDURES OF THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
AS AN OFFICER AND AS A SERGEANT,
I REPORTED POLICE MISCONDUCT
AND I WAS RECOMMENDATIONS FOR
DISCIPLINE MISCONDUCT.
AS CHIEF OF POLICE I IMPOSED
DISCIPLINARY MEASURES WHEN
OFFICERS OPERATED OUTSIDE THE
SCOPE OF THEIR DUTIES.
IN MY ROLE NOW CURRENTLY I
APPROVE ALLEGATIONS AND
RECOMMEND FINDINGS.
>> AND SO, YOU HAVE BEEN INSIDE
THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AS IT
WERE, AND OUTSIDE OF IT, IS
THAT ACCURATE?
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR
EXPERIENCE?
>> AS A SWORN OFFICER AND AS A
CIVILIAN.
>> I THINK THE POINT A LOT OF
PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET TO,
WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO HAVE
THAT CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT OVER
POLICE AGENCIES AND POLICE
OFFICERS?
>> I BELIEVE DIVERSITY AS A
WHOLE IS IMPORTANT.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE
VOICE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE
VOICE OF THE COMMUNITY THAT IS
IMPACTED.
>> THE OPA WOULD POTENTIALLY BE
THAT VOICE IN THE OTHER ARMS OF
THE OIG AND CPC HERE IN
SEATTLE.
>> THAT IS CORRECT.
>> GOT IT.
I'M GOING TO MOVE ON TO THE
NEXT PIECE IF I COULD.
WHAT WILL YOU DO TWO SEPARATE
POLICE OVERSIGHT FROM THE
POLICE WHO HISTORICALLY PROTECT
AND DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST
ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT?
>> SO THAT IS A QUESTION I CAN
ONLY ANSWER IN A WAY I FEEL
THAT THE PERSON IS ASKING.
YOU KNOW, AS AND OPA DIRECTOR I
WOULD HAVE TO ENSURE THAT THE
INVESTIGATIONS ARE DONE FAIRLY.
THERE IS A FAIR PROCESS.
IT IS TRANSPARENT AND
CONSISTENT.
FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS
AND CITIZENS.
>> CAN YOU HELP ME OUT WITH
THAT?
BECAUSE, I THINK THERE IS SOME
INSINUATIONS WITHIN THAT
QUESTION THERE THAT POLICE
OFFICERS WANT TO PROTECT AND
DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST
ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT.
DO YOU THINK THAT IS TRUE?
OFFICERS WANT TO SHY AWAY FROM
THIS TEXT YOU WERE A SWORN
OFFICER.
HELP ME OUT WITH THIS THOUGHT.
>> I THINK ANYONE WOULD WANT TO
DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST
ACCUSATIONS OR ALLEGATIONS
AGAINST THEM.
IT IS ONLY RIGHT THAT EVERYONE
HAS A DUE PROCESS.
>> GOT IT.
I GUESS, TAKING IT FROM THE
CIVILIAN SIDE, IT'S IMPORTANT,
THE POLICE OFFICER JOB FEELS
DIFFERENT TO SOME PEOPLE
BECAUSE THEY CARRY A GUN, ET
CETERA, THEY ARE INVOLVED IN
DIFFERENT SITUATIONS.
THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THESE
OFFICERS ARE HELD TO A HIGHER
LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY.
YOU THINK THAT IS ACCURATE?
>> YES, OFFICERS SHOULD BE HELD
TO A HIGHER STANDARD AS AVERAGE
CITIZENS.
CITIZENS HAVE TO ALSO
UNDERSTAND THAT OFFICERS ARE
HUMAN BEINGS.
RIGHT?
HAVE LIVES.
HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES.
AND ACROSS THE NATION, GLOBALLY,
THERE ARE GREAT OFFICERS OUT
THERE THAT'S DOING THE JOB.
BUT THERE'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE
OF OFFICERS THAT DON'T NEED TO
BE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, RIGHT?
AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN
WORKING SO HARD TO DO AS A
SWORN OFFICER AND AS A CIVILIAN
SUPERVISING INVESTIGATOR, IS TO
ENSURE LEGITIMACY BACK INTO LAW
ENFORCEMENT AND AND SHORT
CITIZENS ARE PROTECTED FROM
THOSE OFFICERS THAT WANT TO
ABUSE THAT AUTHORITY.
>> WE HAVE ONE MINUTE LEFT, HOW
DIFFICULT OF A JOB IS THAT?
>> IT'S NOT DIFFICULT IF THAT
IS WHAT YOU ARE TRUE TOO.
RIGHT?
THAT IS MY TRUE PASSION.
I LOVE LAW ENFORCEMENT.
LEGIT IS ME HAS TO COME BACK
INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT.
THE COMMUNITY HAS TO TRUST THE
PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO
PROTECT THEM AND THAT IS
IMPORTANT.
>> GOT IT.
THANK YOU FOR BREAKING THOSE
DOWN.
LET ME GO TO THE NEXT PIECE,
WHAT PREVENTS OFFICERS FROM
BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE?
A SHORT QUESTION BUT A BIG ONE.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?
>> IT IS SHORT AND BIG.
THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTORS,
BEING AN OFFICER, YOU WORK WITH
PEOPLE WHO CARRY GUNS.
YOU HAVE TO TRUST THEM.
TO HAVE YOUR BACK WHEN YOU ARE
RESPONDING TO COLE'S.
AND, IT CAN BE FEAR, IT COULD
JUST BE COMPLACENCY.
OR, YOU KNOW, -- AND IT IS LACK
OF ACCOUNTABILITY LEADERSHIP.
AND INEFFECTIVE ACCOUNTABILITY
PROCESS AS A WHOLE.
SO, THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTORS
TO THAT.
>> I GUESS, IN JUST LOOKING AT
THIS, HOW DO YOU GET MORE
OFFICERS, RANK-AND-FILE
OFFICERS I AM THINKING HERE, TO
BUY IN THIS CONCEPT OF
ACCOUNTABILITY?
IT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT A LOT.
I KNOW OFFICERS ARE LOOKING AT
THIS PROGRAM RIGHT NOW AND
THINK, WHAT IS GOING TO BE SAID
ABOUT THIS?
HOW DO YOU GET OFFICERS TO BUY
INTO THAT AND MAYBE CHANGE THE
CULTURE OF THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
I KNOW YOU HAVE HEARD THAT
PHRASE BEFORE.
>> I HAVE.
I BELIEVE THERE ARE A LOT OF
OFFICERS OUT THERE THAT WANT
THE SAME THING.
AND THEY ARE FEARFUL TO SAY SO.
I THINK THAT IS A FAIR THING.
AND THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND,
THEY HAVE TO BE PROTECTED.
THERE HAS TO BE AN OUTLET FOR
THEM TO REPORT WITHOUT BEING
EXPOSED.
BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, THEY ARE
HUMAN BEINGS, THEY HAVE
FAMILIES, AND IT'S A REAL FEAR
BECAUSE, WHAT I DID FOR LIVING
WAS CARRY A GUN.
>> THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT
THOSE PIECES.
LET ME MOVE ONTO THE NEXT
QUESTION.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO REACH OUT
DIRECTLY TO THE COMMUNITY,
ESPECIALLY THE BIPOC COMMUNITY
TO BUILD TRUST AND COMMUNICATE
HOW YOU ARE KEEPING LAW
ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS TRANSPARENT
AND ACCOUNTABLE?
SPECIFICALLY, WHAT DOES
ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY
LOOK LIKE?
ANOTHER BIG QUESTION.
>> THAT IS A HUGE ONE.
I WOULD HAVE TO SAY DUE TO THE
SYSTEMIC RACIAL INJUSTICE IN
THE BIPOC COMMUNITY, MEASURES
HAVE TO BE TAKEN IN ORDER TO
IDENTIFY AREAS OF MISCONDUCT.
AND THAT LOOKS LIKE, HAVING
FACE-TO-FACE INTERVIEWS WITH
COMMUNITY MEMBERS THERE
IMPACTED.
IN ADDITION TO PROVIDING A SEAT
AT THE TABLE FOR THEM SO THEY
CAN COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS,
HELP COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS AND
DRAFT AND IMPLEMENT POLICIES.
ENSURING CONSTITUTIONAL
FREEDOMS AND SAFETY.
>> WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE,
SEAT AT THE TABLE?
BEING PART OF A COMMISSION OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
>> NO, IT'S PART OF
BRAINSTORMING.
WHAT ARE THE ISSUES, ONE OF THE
COMPLAINTS, WHAT DO THEY FEEL
WOULD HELP THE COMMUNITY? YOU
HAVE TO HAVE INPUT FROM ALL
SIDES.
AND, IT WOULDN'T JUST BE THE
BIPOC COMMUNITY, IT WOULD BE
LAW ENFORCEMENT, OIG, CPC, LAW
ENFORCEMENT AS A WHOLE.
EVERYONE NEEDS A SEAT AT THE
TABLE TO TALK ABOUT THESE HARD
ISSUES, PROBLEMS, AND COME UP
WITH SOLUTIONS TO IMPLEMENT
THOSE POLICIES.
>> GOT IT.
AND YOU WOULD WANT TO DO
OUTREACH TO THESE COMMITTEES TO
TRY TO BRING THEM IN?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO BUILD
TRUST IN THE COMMUNITY AND
BRIDGE THOSE SEVERED
RELATIONSHIPS.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
THAT.
LET ME MOVE ON TO NEXT QUESTION.
WHAT YOU PERCEIVE THE ROLE OF
THE OPIATE TO BE IN BROADER
DISCUSSIONS AROUND PUBLIC
SAFETY?
THAT IS THE FIRST HALF OF THE
QUESTION.
WHAT ALTERNATIVE RESPONSE
MODELS OR SERVICES INTEREST YOU
AND WILL YOU ACTIVELY ADVOCATE
FOR THESE BEING DEVELOPED IN
SEATTLE IF YOU BECOME THE
DIRECTOR?
WHEREVER YOU WANT TO START IS
FINE.
>> I WOULD SAY THE ROLE AS
DIRECTOR IS TO ENSURE THAT THAT
PROCESS IS A FAIR PROCESS AND
TRANSPARENT PROCESS.
IN DOING SO YOU HAVE TO BUILD
THOSE RELATIONSHIPS WITH OFFICE
OF INTERNAL GENERAL, THE
COMMUNITY POLICE COMMISSION,
LAW ENFORCEMENT, THE COMMUNITY
AS A WHOLE, YOU KNOW, JUST
BASICALLY THE INTERNAL AND
EXTERNAL STAKEHOLDERS.
BEING HONEST AND TRANSPARENT.
>> THE NEXT PART OF THE
QUESTION.
>> THE SECOND PART OF THE
QUESTION IS -- ME THE SECOND
PART.
>> IT WAS REGARDING TENTATIVE
RESPONSE MODELS AND SERVICES,
WHAT OF THOSE INTEREST YOU AND
WILL YOU ACTIVELY ADVOCATE FOR
THOSE BEING DEVELOPED IN
SEATTLE IF YOU BECOME THE
DIRECTOR?
>> I'M A BIG PROPONENT OF
CRISIS INTERVENTION.
IT WOULD BE SOMETHING IN LINE
TO THAT.
AND TRAINING OFFICERS IN
SPECIALIZED CLINICAL AREAS TO
BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO CITIZENS
IN CRISIS.
WHETHER IT IS MENTAL HEALTH
ISSUES OR A PERSON IN CRISIS
MODE.
THAT WAY THEY CAN GET THOSE
CITIZENS TO A SAFE PLACE, TO
SAFER PLACE.
>> I KNOW THIS IS AN ISSUE FOR
POLICE DEPARTMENT'S AROUND THE
COUNTRY, DEVELOPING THE NON-
SWORN OFFICER MODELS OF
RESPONSE OR WHATEVER IS A REAL
CHALLENGE.
YOU HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW TO DO
THAT, THE PROCESS YOU WOULD
USE?
IT'S A BIG QUESTION, I KNOW,
BUT IT'S A BIG ONE SEATTLE IS
FACING RIGHT NOW.
>> MOST POLICE DEPARTMENTS TODAY
, OFFICERS ARE TRAINED IN OTHER
DISCIPLINES, DEGREES, SOME HAVE
SOCIAL WORK DEGREES, PSYCHOLOGY
DEGREES.
I WOULD LOOK AT THOSE OFFICERS
TO SEE IF THEY ARE INTERESTED
IN A POSITION AS A CLINICIAN
AND PROVIDE THAT TRAINING FOR
THEM.
SO THAT WHEN A CALL -- WHEN
THERE IS A CALL OUT FOR A
CRISIS SITUATION, THEY ARE THERE
ON THE ONSET.
AND THAT LOOKS LIKE NOT DRESSED
COMPLETELY IN A POLICE UNIFORM,
BUT THEY ARE DRESSED IN SOFT
CLOSED CLOTHING AND PROTECTED.
NOTHING EXPOSED WITH THE GUN.
THE WHOLE POINT OF PEOPLE IN
CRISIS IS TO GET THEM TO A PLACE
THEY CAN RECEIVE THE RESOURCES
SAFELY THAT THEY NEED.
BECAUSE, WHEN YOU ARE DEALING
WITH PEOPLE IN CRISIS AND
MENTAL ILLNESS, THEY DON'T ASK
FOR THAT.
THEY DIDN'T ASK TO BE BORN WITH
THIS.
LAW ENFORCEMENT JOB IS TO HELP
THEM GET THERE SAFELY.
>> I JUST WANTED TO ASK A 32nd
QUESTION, HAVE YOU DEALT WITH A
CASE LIKE THIS IS AN OFFICER
YOURSELF?
WHAT DID YOU DO?
>> I HAD A CRISIS INTERVENTION
EVALUATOR, I HAVE DEALT WITH --
I WILL TELL YOU ONE SITUATION
IF I CAN, IT WAS SUICIDE BY COP.
IT WAS THE ANNIVERSARY OF THIS
GENTLEMAN'S SON BEING MURDERED.
AND HE TOLD HIS WIFE THAT HE
WAS GOING TO DIE BY SUICIDE BY
COP.
RIGHT?
I WAS THE ONLY ONE TRAINED IN
CRISIS INTERVENTION AT THAT
TIME IN MY DEPARTMENT.
I WAS THE SERGEANT.
AND THE OFFICERS THAT
RESPONDED, I COMMUNICATED WITH
THEM OVER THE RADIO AND TOLD
THEM WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO
BECAUSE THEY HAD NOT BEEN
TRAINED.
WHEN I GOT THERE I SAW THEM
TRYING TO INDICATE, THEY TOOK
THEIR TIME, THEY TRIED TO
COMMUNICATE, BUT THEY GOT
STUCK.
THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO
DO.
SO I TOOK OVER.
AND I LISTENED TO WHAT HE HAD
TO SAY.
AND WHAT THE ISSUES WERE.
AND I SAID, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR
SON.
AND I SAW HIS ENTIRE DEMEANOR
CHANGE AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND
HE SAID, HE WAS MURDERED.
HE WAS AN ARTIST.
HE WAS A BASKETBALL PLAYER.
I SAID TELL ME MORE ABOUT THAT.
SO I GAVE HIM AN OUTLET TO TALK
ABOUT HIS SON.
I SAID SIR, I DON'T HAVE A
CHOICE BUT TO TAKE YOU TO THE
HOSPITAL.
AND I SAID I AM SORRY, IS THERE
ANYTHING ELSE I CAN GET YOU IN
ORDER TO GET YOU TO GO THERE
SAFELY?
HE SAID CAN MY WIFE COME?
I SAID ABSOLUTELY.
I CAN TAKE YOU TO THE HOSPITAL
OR I CAN HAVE THE AMBULANCE
TAKE YOU.
HE OPTED FOR THE INDOLENCE TO
GO AND I FOLLOWED HIM.
IT IS JUST BEING HONEST AND
LISTENING.
WHAT IS THE UNDERLYING ISSUE OF
WHAT IS GOING ON.
A LOT OF TIMES OFFICERS -- WE
ARE PROGRAMMED TO RUN IN AND
TAKE NAMES, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
IN YOUR NAME AND DATE OF BIRTH
AND HANDLE THAT.
AND GO TO THE NEXT CALL.
WE ARE NOT TRAINED TO TAKE A
STEP BACK AND ACTUALLY LISTEN
TO THE ISSUES OF THE PERSON IN
CRISIS.
>> THANK YOU FOR SHARING ALL
THAT WITH US.
LAST QUESTION, WHAT WOULD BE A
KEY INDICATOR OF SUCCESS FOR
YOU AS OPA DIRECTOR?
>> GAINING THE TRUST OF THE
CITIZENS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT,
THAT WE ARE CONDUCTING FAIR AND
TRANSPARENT INVESTIGATIONS.
NOT EVERY OUTCOME IS GOING TO
BE FAVORABLE.
YOU KNOW, BUT KNOWING THAT THE
PROCESS IS FAIR IS WHAT I WOULD
LIKE TO ACHIEVE TO KNOW THAT I
HAVE SUCCEEDED.
>> THANK YOU.
I'VE GOT A LITTLE MORE TIME
LEFT FOR YOU.
ANY FINAL THOUGHTS ABOUT WHY
YOU THINK YOU MIGHT BE THE BEST
PERSON FOR THIS JOB?
JUST TO LET THE PUBLIC KNOW
ABOUT THAT?
>> YEAH, I THINK THAT I CARE
ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT, I CARE
ABOUT CITIZENS, I CARE ABOUT
THE SAFETY OF CITIZENS.
I DON'T THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I
THINK WE CAN RECOGNIZE OFFICERS
WHO ARE EGREGIOUSLY COMMITTING
MISCONDUCT.
BUT OFFICERS ARE HUMAN BEINGS
AND THEY MAKE MISTAKES BUT THEY
ALSO HAVE TO BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE.
AND I TRULY BELIEVE THAT HAVING
A FAIR PROCESS, THEY MAY NOT
LIKE IT BUT THEY WILL ACCEPT IT
BECAUSE IT IS FAIR.
AND I THINK BEING A PRIOR LAW
ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AND CIVILIAN
OVERSIGHT SUPERVISOR, I BELIEVE
I AM THE BEST PERSON TO RUN OPA
AS A DIRECTOR.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
THAT IS VALIZA NASH, WE HAVE
ONE MORE CANDIDATE WE ARE GOING
TO BRING IN.
WE ARE GOING TO BRING THE NEXT
CANDIDATE IN.
PLEASE STAY WITH US AND WE WILL
BE BACK IN JUST A FEW MINUTES.
ROSCOE
.
>>> BRIAN CALLANAN BACK WITH
YOU HERE IN SEATTLE CHANNEL AS
WE BRING YOU OUR FINAL
CANDIDATE FOR THE POSITION OF
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF
POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE
CITY OF SEATTLE.
AND THAT IS GINO BETTS,
ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY AT THE
COMMUNITY JUSTICE CENTER IN
THE COOK COUNTY STATE
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IN CHICAGO,
ILLINOIS.
THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ASK
THESE QUESTIONS THAT THE PUBLIC
HAS PASSED ALONG.
WE WILL START WITH THE FIRST
ONE.
WHAT IS YOUR TRACK RECORD FOR
HOLDING POLICE OFFICERS TO
ACCOUNT FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND
DECISIONS?
>> I'M SORRY, RAISE UP THAT
MICROPHONE.
START AGAIN PLEASE.
I WILL RESTART THE TIME.
>> I GOT INTO POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY AFTER HE SAW A
WAVE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
-- AFTER THAT HAPTEN --
>> HOLD ON ONE SECOND.
LET ME TAKE THIS.
I HAD A SNEAKY FEELING THAT
MICROPHONE WASN'T ON.
LET'S RESTART THAT.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GIVE YOU
THE RIGHT TIME AND PEOPLE CAN
HEAR YOU.
I WILL RE-ASK THE QUESTION.
WHAT IS YOUR TRACK RECORD FOR
HOLDING POLICE OFFICERS TO
ACCOUNT FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND
DECISIONS?
>> SO MY TRACK RECORD WITH
POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY STARTED
IN 2017.
I WAS INTRODUCED TO THE CONCEPT
OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AFTER
WE SAW A NATIONAL WAVE OF
POLICE MISCONDUCT CAPTURED ON
VIDEO.
SO IN NEW YORK WE SAW ERIC
GARDNER.
IN MINNESOTA WE SAW PHILANDO
CASTILE.
IN MY CITY, IN MY BACKYARD
THERE WAS THE WORD OR MURDER OF
LAQUAN McDONALD.
THE CITY RESPONDED BY FURTHER
INVESTING IN POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT.
THEY FURTHER INVESTED IN THE
AGENCY, THE OVERSIGHT AGENCY,
THE OFFICE OF POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY, I WAS SELECTED
TO BE PART OF THE INAUGURAL
CLASS OF THAT AGENCY.
SO SOME OF MY MOST MEANINGFUL
PROFESSIONAL WORK WAS DONE AT
THAT AGENCY.
I SERVED AS AN ATTORNEY FOR A
TEAM THAT INVESTIGATED POLICE
OFFICERS ACCUSED OF MISCONDUCT.
ONE OF THE MOST GRATIFYING
CASES I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO
WORK ON INVOLVED A POLICE
SERGEANT, WHO RAN A TEAM OF
CORRUPT POLICE OFFICERS.
THEY WERE ESSENTIALLY EXTORTING
DRUG DEALERS IN THE
NEIGHBORHOOD.
WHY WOULD THEY SELECT DRUG
DEALERS?
BECAUSE THEY KNEW THAT NO ONE
WOULD BELIEVE DRUG DEALERS WHEN
THEY REPORTED THE POLICE WAS
EXTORTING THEM.
SO THIS WENT ON FOR A LONG TIME.
FOR THE DRUG DEALERS WHO PUSHED
BACK AND REFUSED TO BE EXTORTED,
THEY WERE WRONGFULLY ARRESTED
AND ULTIMATELY CONVICTED. SO THE
ADMINISTRATIVE INVESTIGATIONS I
WAS PART OF LED TO THE
DISCIPLINE OF SEVERAL OF THOSE
INVOLVED OFFICERS.
IT ALSO LED TO THE IMPRISONMENT
OF SOME OF THOSE OFFICERS.
AND ULTIMATELY THE OVERTURNING
OF 200 WRONGFULLY CONVICTED
COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO WERE
CONVICTED BY MEMBERS OF THAT
TEAM.
>> I THINK WERE GOING TO GET
INTO MORE PIECES IN A LITTLE
BIT.
I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE NEXT
QUESTION WE GOT FROM THE PUBLIC.
WHAT WILL YOU DO TWO SEPARATE
POLICE OVERSIGHT FROM POLICE
WHO HISTORICALLY DEFEND
THEMSELVES AGAINST
ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT?
>> I THINK THE QUESTION IS
DIRECTED TOWARD THE FRAMEWORK
OF OPA. HOW IT IS CURRENTLY
STRUCTURED WHERE IT IS NORMALLY
SWORN OFFICERS INVESTIGATING
ALLEGATIONS OF MISCONDUCT
AGAINST OTHER SWORN OFFICERS.
I AM NOT PERSONALLY AWARE OF
ANY RESEARCH OR DATA THAT
SUGGESTS THAT IS INHERENTLY
WRONG OR IT SOMEHOW COMPROMISES
THE INTEGRITY OF THE
INVESTIGATION.
HOWEVER, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS
THAT THE OPTICS OF IT IS NOT A
GREAT LOOK, RIGHT?
AT LEAST FROM THE COMMUNITY
PERSPECTIVE.
AND THAT IS A PERSPECTIVE THAT
HAS BEEN SHAPED BY DECADES OF
POLICE ABUSE AND MISTRUST THAT
HAS BEEN BUILT UP.
SO THE OPTICS OF IT DON'T LOOK
GREAT.
EVEN THOUGH I'M SURE THE
OFFICERS ARE DOING THE BEST
THEY CAN DO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT
AUTHORITY I WOULD HAVE AS OPA
DIRECTOR TO CHANGE THAT, BECAUSE
IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THE
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT
THAT REQUIRES THAT SEVEN OUT OF
THE NINE INVESTIGATORS ARE
SWORN OFFICERS AND THE OTHER
TWO CIVILIANS.
BUT THOSE TWO CAN'T WORK IN ANY
CLASSES THAT WILL LEAD TO THE
TERMINATION OF THE OFFICER.
SO IT'S REALLY A CONVERSATION
THAT NEEDS TO BE HAD.
>> IF YOU HAD YOUR DRUTHERS
WHAT WOULD IT BE?
MORE CIVILIAN INVOLVEMENT WITH
INVESTIGATION PIECES?
>> MY BACKGROUND, COMING FROM
CHICAGO, WE HAD AN AGENCY OF 60
CIVILIAN INVESTIGATORS.
NO SWORN INVESTIGATORS.
I HAVE SEEN IT WORK AND I KNOW
IT CAN WORK.
I'M NOT OPPOSED TO HAVING SWORN
INVESTIGATORS, BUT I THINK IT
HAS TO BE A MORE BALANCED
APPROACH.
>> GOT IT.
THANK YOU FOR BREAKING THAT
DOWN.
I WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT
QUESTION.
WHAT PREVENTS OFFICERS FROM
BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE?
THIS IS A BIGGER QUESTION THAN
IT SEEMS.
WE HAVEHEARD SOME INTERESTING
ANSWERS.
>> I FEEL LIKE WE'RE GOING TO
BE TALKING ABOUT THE CBA ALL
NIGHT.
IT COMES DOWN TO THE COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING AGREEMENT.
WE HAVE A STRONG AND ROBUST
ACCOUNTABILITY ORDINANCE HERE
IN SEATTLE.
BUT IT IS UNDERMINED BY TERMS
IN THE CBA THAT, YOU KNOW,
POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY SHOULD
NOT BE NEGOTIATED IN A LABOR
NEGOTIATION AGREEMENT.
POLICE HAVE DONE A MASTERFUL
JOB, POLICE UNIONS, AND ONLY
HERE IN SEATTLE BUT NATIONWIDE,
OF TURNING WHAT HAS
HISTORICALLY BEEN A LABOR
NEGOTIATION, WHICH WOULD
CONSIST OF SALARIES AND
BENEFITS AND VACATION DAYS,
THINGS OF THAT NATURE, AND
MAKING IT INTO A LEGAL SHIELD
AGAINST PLEASE ACCOUNTABILITY.
SO THAT IS ONE THING. ANOTHER
THING WITH THE CBA, THE
COVERING OF PRIVATE ARBITRATORS
TO BASICALLY UNDERMINE
DISCIPLINE HANDED DOWN BY THE
POLICE CHIEF.
THAT IS ANOTHER THING.
THAT IS DONE BEHIND CLOSED
DOORS.
CAN'T SCRUTINIZE IT FROM A
PUBLIC PERSPECTIVE.
SO ANYTHING THAT IS DONE IN THE
DARK, TO ME, PERSONALLY, IS A
RED FLAG.
I THINK WE ALSO NEED A STRONGER
DECERTIFICATION DATABASE, RIGHT,
YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE OFFICERS
FLOATING FROM JURISDICTION TO
JURISDICTION LOOKING FOR
EMPLOYMENT.
AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE
EXPANDED TO A NATIONAL
DATABASE.
SO YOU CAN GO FROM SEATTLE, IF
YOU WERE SPD AND DISCIPLINED OR
TERMINATED, YOU SHOULDN'T BE
ABLE TO GO TO CHICAGO AND
BECOME AN OFFICER.
>> I KNOW THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT
HAPPENS IN POLICE DEPARTMENTS
ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY, HAVE
YOU HAD DEALINGS WITH POLICE
UNIONS AND TALKED ABOUT ISSUES
LIKE THESE, SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT
THAT?
>> I HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS
WITH THE PUBLIC.
>> I SEE.
>> I HAVE DEALT WITH POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY WHERE HE WAS
HANDICAPPED FROM DOING CERTAIN
THINGS BECAUSE OF COLLECTIVE
AGREEMENTS.
THAT IS MY EXPERIENCE.
>> IT IS A COMPLICATED PICTURE.
>> IT IS.
>> AND YOU WOULD LIKE THE OPA
THAT I DON'T WANT TO PUT WORDS
IN YOUR MOUTH.
WOULD YOU LIKE THE OPA TO HAVE
A STRONGER ROLE IN THAT CBA
PROCESS OR IS THERE ANYTHING
YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT TO WRAP
UP?
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WOULD
HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE WHEN
IT COMES TO NEGOTIATIONS.
BUT I WILL PUBLICLY STATE MY
OBJECTIONS TO CERTAIN PARTS OF
IT.
INCLUDING THE INCLUSION OF
POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY BEING
PART OF THOSE NEGOTIATIONS.
>> THANK YOU FOR BREAKING THAT
DOWN.
LET'S GO ON TO ANOTHER WESTERN.
THIS IS A BIG ONE.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE IN YOUR WORK
TO REACH OUT TO THE COMMUNITY,
ESPECIALLY THE BIPOC COMMUNITY
TO BUILD TRUST AND COMMUNICATE
HOW KEEPING LAW ENFORCEMENT
ACTIONS TRANSPARENCY? WHAT DOES
ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY
LOOK LIKE TO YOU?
>> I WAS BORN AND RAISED ON THE
WEST SIDE OF CHICAGO.
I DON'T THINK IT GETS MORE
BIPOC THAN THAT.
THE CAPITAL OF BIPOC.
BUT IN MY CURRENT ROLE AT THE
STATE'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, MA
COMMUNITY JUSTICE PROSECUTOR.
IT'S A BIFURCATED ROLE.
HEART OF MY TIME IS SPENT
PROSECUTING VIOLENT OFFENSES.
THE OTHER PARTIES WORKING
WITHIN THE BIPOC COMMUNITIES
EDUCATING THEM ABOUT PUBLIC
SAFETY, THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM, WHEN I WORKED AT
CIVILIAN OFFICE OF POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY, EXCUSE ME, THAT
WAS PART OF MY ROLE.
I WOULD TAKE EVERY OPPORTUNITY
I COULD TO GET OUT AND ENGAGE
WITH THE COMMUNITY.
I BELIEVE, WHETHER AS A
PROSECUTOR OR AS AN ATTORNEY, AT
COPA, WE HAVE TO BE VISIBLE IN
THE COMMUNITY WELL BEFORE WE
ASK THE COMMUNITY FOR HELP WITH
ANYTHING, RIGHT?
>> WHAT DOES OUTREACH LOOK
LIKE?
IS IT VISITING WITH DIFFERENT
COMMUNITY GROUPS?
GIVE ME A PICTURE.
>> IN MY CURRENT ROLE YOU CAN
FIND ME ON, WE CALL THEM BEAT
MEETINGS IN CHICAGO, POLICE
HOSTED MEETINGS, BUT THEY ARE
TO HOST THE COMMUNITY AND
UPDATE THEM ON CRIME AND PUBLIC
SAFETY CONCERNS.
TO YOUR POINT ABOUT PLEASE
ACCOUNTABILITY, I RECALL
RECENTLY AT A BEAT MEETING
THERE WAS A CITIZEN, HE TOLD
THE OFFICERS, HEY, I WITNESSED
ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS GET
ARRESTED, HE WAS PULLED FROM
HIS CAR, THEY SEARCHED THE CAR,
THEY SEARCHED MY NEIGHBOR, THE
ACTUALLY PULLED DOWN HIS PANTS
IN PUBLIC.
AND SEARCHED HIS NAKED BODY.
WHO CAN I TALK TO ABOUT THAT?
OF COURSE THE POLICE WERE
SILENT.
THEY DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT
THE POLICE OVERSIGHT AGENCY.
BUT I TOOK THAT OPPORTUNITY TO
EDUCATE NOT ONLY THAT PERSON
BUT EVERYONE ELSE, THAT THERE
IS AN AGENCY OUT THERE THAT IS
TASKED SPECIFICALLY WITH
INVESTIGATING THAT TYPE OF
SITUATION.
>> SO THE BEAT MEETINGS ARE AN
IMPORTANT PART OF THAT.
IS THAT SOMETHING YOU DO
REGULARLY, THAT TYPE OF
OUTREACH?
>> I DO BEAT MEETINGS ALMOST
EVERY OTHER NIGHT.
I HOST WEBINARS RIGHT EDUCATE
THE PUBLIC ON THE CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM AND THE ROLE OF
THE PROSECUTOR.
I DO WEBINARS, MOCK TRIALS IN
SCHOOLS.
MY WEEK IS ALWAYS DIFFERENT.
>> 30 SECONDS LEFT ON THIS, IT
SOUNDS LIKE THAT PIECE, THAT
OUTREACH IS REALLY AN IMPORTANT
PART OF WHAT TRANSPARENCY IS
ALL ABOUT.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
I AM 100% A HUGE PROPONENT OF
TRANSPARENCY.
THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS TO REBUILD
COMMUNITY TRUST AND PLEASE
ACCOUNTABILITY FRAMEWORK.
TRANSPARENCY IS AN EASY TOOL TO
GET US THERE.
IT IS KIND OF LOW HANGING
FRUIT.
I KNOW IN CHICAGO, AND FORGIVE
ME FOR KEEP TALKING ABOUT
CHICAGO --
>> THAT IS WHERE YOU'RE DOING
IT.
>> FRAME OF REFERENCE, BUT IN
CHICAGO WE RELEASED VIDEO, BODY
WORN CAMERAS WITHIN 60 DAYS OF
THE INCIDENT.
THAT IS SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE
TO BRING TO SEATTLE AS WELL.
>> GOT IT.
TO MAKE SURE THAT VIDEO IS
GETTING OUT THERE MORE QUICKLY.
>> AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
AS LONG AS WE ARE NOT
COMPROMISING THE INTEGRITY OF
OUR INVESTIGATION I FEEL LIKE
WE SHOULD RELEASE IT TO THE
PUBLIC.
>> GOT IT.
APPRECIATE THAT POINT.
LET'S ASK THIS NEXT QUESTION.
THIS IS A DOUBLE-HEADED
QUESTION.
WHAT DO YOU PERCEIVE THE ROLE
OF THE OPA TO BE IN BROADER
DISCUSSIONS AROUND PUBLIC
SAFETY?
AND, WHAT ALTERNATIVE RESPONSE
MODELS AND SERVICES INTEREST
YOU AND WILL YOU ACTIVELY
ADVOCATE FOR THOSE BEING
DEVELOPED IN SEATTLE IF YOU
BECOME DIRECTOR?
>> RIGHT, SO I THINK POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY -- IT DIRECTLY
IMPACTS PUBLIC SAFETY.
IF PEOPLE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN
THE SYSTEMS WE CREATE IN POLICE
OVERSIGHT AND THEY HAVE
CONFIDENCE THAT OUR
INVESTIGATIONS WILL BE THOROUGH,
WILL BE COMPETENT AND
INDEPENDENT, THEN THEY ARE MORE
LIKELY TO UPHOLD THE RULE OF
LAW.
SO THAT DIRECTLY IMPACTS PUBLIC
SAFETY.
WHAT I THINK ACCOUNTABILITY
LOOKS LIKE, IT'S KIND OF
TWOFOLD.
THERE IS FRONT END
ACCOUNTABILITY THAT ADDRESSES
POLICY WORK.
I THINK THE COMMUNITY SHOULD
HAVE A STRONG POSITION WHEN IT
COMES TO SHAPING POLICE POLICY.
AND I HAVE THE BACKEND WORK
WHERE OPA INVESTIGATES
INDIVIDUAL CASES OF POLICE
MISCONDUCT.
THAT'S WHAT I WILL BE DOING AS
OPA DIRECTOR.
THERE IS A ROLE FOR THE
COMMUNITY BUT THOSE
INVESTIGATIONS WILL NOT BE
SWAYED BY PUBLIC OPINION.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SECOND
PIECE.
THIS CONCEPT OF ALTERNATIVE
RESPONSE MODELS.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THOSE,
WOULD YOU ADVOCATE FOR THOSE IF
YOU GOT THE JOB?
>> I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR THEM.
I WAS EXCITED TO SEE THE
EXPANSION OF THE HEALTH ONE
UNITS.
I THINK THAT IS A GREAT START.
I THINK WE ASK A LOT OF POLICE.
WHEN IT COMES TO RESPONDING TO
CALLS FOR SERVICE.
I DON'T KNOW THE POLICE WOULD
BE THE BEST SUITED UNIT TO
RESPOND TO CERTAIN CALLS LIKE
BEHAVIORAL HEALTH CONCERNS OR
MENTAL HEALTH EPISODES OR A
HOMELESS PERSON BEING ASKED TO
LEAVE I THINK THERE ARE OTHER
AVENUES TO EXPLORE FOR
ACTIVATING POLICE.
>> GOT IT.
AND THOSE WOULD WORK WITH THE
POLICE DEPARTMENT?
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS WOULD
LOOK LIKE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT
THAT?
WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT DEPENDS
ON THE NATURE OF THE CALL.
IF THERE IS INDICATION THAT
THERE IS A CHANCE FOR VIOLENCE,
THAT OF COURSE YOU WANT POLICE
PRESENCE AS WELL.
A LOT OF THESE CALLS FOR
SERVICE, MOST OF THESE CALLS
FOR SERVICE THAT THE POLICE GET
ARE NOT FOR VIOLENT OFFENSES OR
VIOLENT CRIMES.
LAKE WITH HEALTH ONE UNIT, AND
EMT AND SOCIAL WORKER THAT CAN
CONNECT FOLKS WITH RESOURCES.
WE NEED MORE OF THAT.
>> GOT IT.
THANK YOU FOR BREAKING THAT
PIECE DOWN.
ONE FINAL QUESTION, WHAT WOULD
BE A KEY INDICATOR FOR SUCCESS
FOR YOU AS DIRECTOR OF OPA?
>> I THINK THE NUMBER ONE
MEASURE OF SUCCESS WOULD BE,
ARE WE GROWING PUBLIC CONFIDENCE
AND PLEASE ACCOUNTABILITY?
THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE THING.
NUMBER TWO IS, ARE WE
COLLABORATING WITH THE
STAKEHOLDERS, WHETHER IT IS
OIG, CPC, THE COMMUNITY, ARE WE
COLLABORATING TO ADDRESS POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY?
NUMBER THREE, ARE WE BUILDING
CONFIDENCE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY,
NOT ONLY JUST CIVILIANS BUT
POLICE MEMBERS.
WE WANT THEM TO BUY INTO IT AS
WELL.
RIGHT?
THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
SO ONE TOOL THAT HAS PROVEN TO
BE A GOOD WAY TO BRING
SATISFACTION TO BOTH THE
ACCUSED OFFICER AND THE
COMPLAINT AND IS MEDIATION.
SO THAT IS ANOTHER TOOL THAT
HAD TO STOP BECAUSE OF COVID,
BUT THAT IS SOMETHING I WOULD
LOOK TO BRING BACK AS OPA
DIRECTOR.
>> GOT IT.
JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE A COUPLE
MINUTES LEFT, ANYTHING YOU WANT
PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT YOU OTHER
THAN WHAT YOU HAVE SAID
ALREADY, AND MAYBE WHY YOU
THINK YOU'RE THE RIGHT PERSON
FOR THIS JOB?
>> I DO BELIEVE WE HAVE A BUNCH
OF QUALIFIED CANDIDATES, I
THINK MY PERSPECTIVE IS VERY
BALANCED.
-SAID, I HAVE THE EXPENSE OF
BEING A PROSECUTOR THAT SHAPES
MY VIEW ON POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY.
I ALSO HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OF
BEING A BLACK MAN OR A BLACK
BOY RAISED ON THE WEST SIDE OF
CHICAGO.
IT IS THE PERSONAL AND
PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE I AM
BRINGING TO THE TABLE THE GIVES
ME VERY BALANCED APPROACH.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
THIS IS GINO BETTS WE'RE
TALKING TOO.
THE FOURTH AND FINAL CANDIDATE
WE ARE TALKING TO FOR OUR
PUBLIC FORUM ON THE CANDIDATES
FOR DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF
POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY.
TO WRAP THINGS UP, THE MAYOR
WILL BE MEETING WITH THESE
CANDIDATES ON FRIDAY, JUNE 10.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE
FEEDBACK ON THESE CANDIDATES
YOU CAN DO SO BY COMPLETING THE
SURVEY WHICH YOU WILL FIND A
LINK TO WHEN THE FORM IS POSTED
TO SEATTLE CHANNEL.ORG.
KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR THAT, THAT
WILL HAPPEN SOON.
THE SURVEY WILL REMAIN OPEN
UNTIL JUNE 15.
THE MAYOR WILL BE LOOKING INTO
THIS.
SUBJECT TO THE BACKGROUND CHECK
AND WE ANTICIPATE AN
ANNOUNCEMENT IN EARLY JULY.
PLEASE WATCH FOR THIS PROGRAM
TO BE POSTED ON SEATTLE
CHANNEL.ORG.
MAKE SURE YOU GIVE YOUR
FEEDBACK BY JUNE 15.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
US.
I AM BRIAN CALLANAN, THANK YOU
FOR WATCHING THIS SPECIAL
PRESENTATION OF A PUBLIC FORUM
ON SEATTLE CHANNEL.